D&D5: First System Impressions

As I’ve already mentioned, the new D&D rules have been released into the wilds of the internet, and so they are fair game for commentary above and beyond what I’ve already said based on my play experience at Origins. This isn’t a formal review, but a rundown of what’s in the game and my preliminary opinions about it.

index First, though, we’d better cover what the new product is and is not, so far. What we have right now are two items, the D&D Starter Set and the D&D Basic Rules. The former is a boxed set which includes a 32-page rulebook, a 64-page adventure, five pregenerated characters, a blank character sheet and a set of dice. The latter is a PDF currently available for free from the Wizards site. They are the same rules, but the Starter Set is aimed clearly at new players and contains a stripped-down and simplified version of the game, with enough material to take characters to level 5. But it does not contain character creation rules; if you want to play with anything other than the stock pregens you’ll need to download the PDF.

The D&D Basic Rules contains the core of the new game system up to level 20. It comes in at 110 pages and is currently at version 0.1. What this means is that it’s subject to revision, but it also does not currently include a bestiary or the rules for handing out experience and building encounters. So as of now D&D Basic is not quite a complete game. However, the Starter Set includes those monsters and NPCs which appear in the adventure, and there is text in the adventure that explains how to hand out the individual awards for each encounter. There are also some additional monsters HERE from one of the late playtest drafts (which need to be checked for balance) and some preliminary encounter-building rules HERE on Mike Mearls’ blog on the WotC site. So an enterprising and moderately experienced DM could hash this into a workable campaign even now. This stuff is supposed to be added to the Basic Rules as the hardcovers release. Down the line, the Basic Rules are intended to be a living document that will be added to as new adventures and other support materials are released that require additional rules. Considering that the July 3 release contained much more than was originally announced (it was supposed to have been just character creation,) I have no reason to doubt that this will occur.

It should be noted that the Basic Rules PDF is the core game, not the full game with all the bells and whistles and options. It gives four character classes (the Cleric, Fighter, Rogue and Wizard,) four races (the Elf, Dwarf, Halfling and Human) with basic options for each representing the genre-typical vision of that race or class. It also includes what I imagine to be a limited subset of the spells, although at a good third of the book I’d say there’s aleready plenty to go with. The three hardcover books (Player’s Handbook, Monster Manual and Dungeon Master’s Guide) that will be released in August, September and October respectively will be expanded versions of the core game described in the Basic Rules, containing many more options and expansions. But the Basic Rules is supposed to be (and right now looks like it will be) a complete and playable game in its own right if you don’t want any of that cruft. It’s actually pretty complete already, aside from the aforementioned omissions.

I’m going to punt the in-depth specifics of the two products a future post, but for now I am going to give my general impressions of the game system.

D&D5’s rules as released thus far represent sort of a return to the roots of the game. The Debbie Downers of the RPG world are calling it warmed-over 2E, or 3E or 4E depending on who you talk to. Which ought to tell you that they haven’t looked at it very closely . There are elements here which first appeared in Fourth Edition, but it’s built on a 3E chassis and the overall effect is of a melange of various editions, with none being especially dominant. It does, however, depart completely from the laser focus on combat and extreme codification of every combat-relevant mechanical effect that was a hallmark of 4E. So the fans of that version are tending to be, from what I’m seeing, it’s harshest critics. Also not appearing in this picture is the default assumption from 3.5 and 4E that you’re playing with miniatures; while you could play 3-4E without them, the rules assumed you were, and the difficulty of doing without them ranged from irritating tedium to major pain in the ass. D&D5 does away with this; all the info you need to play with minis is in there, but the compulsion to do so is gone. The overall complexity level being perhaps comparable to a pre-bloat AD&D2E — so it’s pretty lean. It isn’t as stripped down as Moldvay Basic, as some had hoped and/or feared. It’s pretty loose but with substantial structure, which is a sweet spot from where I am sitting right now.

There’s a lot of open questions about 5E; I’m not sure I understand the thinking behind the XP requirements for leveling, for example. At a glance it looks like you rocket through the very early levels really fast —— like maybe to level 3 in the first session. My gut instinct is to hate that… but it’s incredibly easy to houserule, and there’s a chance I might be sold on it anyway. We’ll see what happens with the next additions to these core rules, but what I see now looks like a robust and appealing system in its own right, without any real need for additional supplements. If that’s the intention, and I gather it to be, then I approve.

On the D&D5 Credits Controversy

The free PDF of the new D&D Basic Rules hit the WotC website over the holiday weekend. I’ll have words to say about the new rules in future posts, but right now, because it’s the raging topic of conversation in my circles, I feel obliged to comment on the controversy.

Yes, controversy. About the new D&D rules. Well, not about the rules, but about two people who appear to have contributed to them.

Now, I have resolutely managed to steer clear of political matters in the seven years I have been writing this blog. I’d rather talk about gaming on this outlet. In this case, however, matters of gaming and politics are intertwined, so you’re going to get some of my politics if you continue reading. So be warned, and stop now if you don’t want to know.

With that out of the way, though, and because folks who don’t follow me on social media may not be aware of it, I am a staunch and vocal supporter of both LGBT rights in society at large and inclusiveness within the gaming community. It is our community, and, imperfect though it may be, we should make every effort to make everyone in it feel welcome and included, no matter their race, creed, religion, gender identity or orientation, sexual or otherwise. However, I have friends on both sides of this argument.

Now, the individuals in question are Zak Smith and John Tarnowski, who goes by “The RPGPundit,” both of whom get credited in the new rules’ “Additional Consulting by” section. The allegations start with these people being “hostile to inclusiveness,” whatever that means. Specifically, that they are hostile to LGBT people. Some have even called for a boycott of the new edition over the inclusion of these two as (allegedly) paid consultants. Now, if those credits bother you that much, I say it’s your time and money, so knock yourself out. But this strikes me as an asinine over-reaction for several reasons.

Both figures are fairly well known within the tabletop RPG community and within the OSR movement in particular, and both have some designer cred as well. Both are unquestionably controversial even outside of this specific squabble.

If the allegation was that these two guys are assholes, well, that’s not a charge I will defend them against. Zak, for example, has some hot-button issues on which he will argue very aggressively, to the point that some people feel cornered by him when he asks them to clarify or defend their views and won’t let them dissemble. Among those issues are freedom of artistic expression, censorship and hypocrisy. And also people throwing out wild accusations with no proof or documentation. Yes, he can be “needlessly aggressive” as one commentator put it, but to my mind he is also right on every one of the issues listed above. He is also right to push back and demand clarity and/or documentation when this kind of thing comes up in his circles.

But being an asshole isn’t the accusation against him, which has ranged from being LGBT-unfriendly to having a “hit list” and calling people in the middle of the night with death threats. The former is laughably implausible considering Zak’s line of work, even without taking into account his numerous statements indicating otherwise. The latter is criminal menacing, not a charge you want to throw around without evidence… and yet, without exception, when the accusers are asked for documentation all they can come back with is “it is known,” like they’re some kind of GoT robots. There isn’t the slightest shred of evidence of any kind corroborating any of this, of course, just hearsay that seems to originate from three specific people on G+ whose stories are highly suspect, and who have known axes to grind with Zak.

Tarnowski is rather a different case. He has a long history of online misbehavior, a laundry list of places where he’s not welcome and a blog where he posts juvenile screeds fairly regularly. Unlike Zak much of this conduct can be corroborated with a simple Google search even without digging for any of his former aliases, and level-headed people I know and trust can relate stories of said improper behavior. He also has a pretty good eye for RPG design, is clearly not the moron roughly 25% of his posts imply him to be, is certainly capable of holding down his end of an adult conversation when he wants to, and his blog is home to some compelling articles and insights, which I why I follow it. But he is, to my mind, a far more problematic character than Zak. You might say that he is indisputably an asshole, and I wouldn’t argue with you — but neither would he, I’m guessing. It’s part of his schtick.

In this case, however, the specific transgression he’s been accused of — that of being LGBT-hostile — is also untrue. And he’s been vocal about it, and one of the characters on the cover of his historical RPG Arrows of Indra is possibly the first transgendered character to occupy such a place.

An additional irony is that the new rules contain an unprecedented (at least for D&D) passage that explicitly states that players should feel able to apply definitions of gender to their characters that are different from the so-called cultural norms. Both Zak and Tarnowski have explicitly stated their support for this passage, although some people — including the same people throwing around wild-ass accusations against Zak — have taken issue with that for supposed insensitivity to LGBT concerns, and alleged that obviously the authors didn’t consult any transgendered people about it. Except that, as it happens, we now know that the passage was written by a man with a transgender daughter and edited by a gay person with a trans sibling. So there goes that allegation out the window as well.

As I said above, if you feel like avoiding the new edition of D&D over this, that’s your prerogative. I don’t buy from Hobby Lobby or Chick-fil-A because of the repulsive bigotry of the people running those corporations. I don’t read Orson Scott Card because he is a cretin who has stated publicly that gays should be killed. Where you make your own stand is up to you, but I caution you to make that decision based on the facts, not on hearsay from people with grudges.

I will note one other thing before I close this discussion. Neither Zak nor the Pundit have any connection to Hasbro, WotC or the D&D design and development team, other than being asked to look over the rules and give their input. And there are 85 other names listed in the D&D Basic Rules credits, none of whom have the slightest controversy attached to them. Do you check to make sure there’s no bigots or assholes with a similarly tenuous connection to say, Radio Shack or Hot Topic before you shop there? If not, then you should consider whether your response is proportional and appropriate.

I will not be writing another post on this subject. Feel free to offer your opinions in the comments, but be warned that I will be policing them very strictly, so be polite.

Origins 2014 Wrapup Part 2: The Games

Here’s my breakdown of the games that I played at Origins.

Full Thrust (Thursday)

IMG_20140612_150017Full Thurst is a generic-ish starship minitaures combat game that I’ve had my eye on for a number of years. Unfortunately there were two games of it running at the same time, and I picked the table that wasn’t full. So it was basically me and the GM running through a fairly quick space battle. I had fun, but I’m guessing that the folks at the full table had more. I did win the game, however.

The Full Trust rules play a little bit like Star Fleet Battles Ultralight (more like a cross between Starfire and Mayday, actually, but that’s a more obscure comparison) and even large fleet battles with lots of big ships can be resolved in a reasonable amount of time. There are also hacks available to port the rules to Star Wars or BSG or Babylon 5 or whatever. The minis themselves are pretty nice. After having played it it’s not a game I am dying to buy into, but I’d play it again.

13th Age (Thursday)

IMG_20140612_20453713th Age is essentially an evolution of D&D4 with a great deal of the mechanical baggage pared away and less focused on combat encounters. I found it very enjoyable. What I did like most about the system, though, were the tools to encourage player investment in the campaign structure. These are nothing earthshakingly innovative by storygame standards, but they’re well-executed here and eminently stealable for other games. This particular event was a town bit followed by a wilderness encounter and a brief dungeon crawl, so we got to see most of the moving parts in action, except for those interesting storygame bits that only really shine in campaign play.

D&D BECMI, B4 The Lost City (Friday)

IMG_20140613_084355This classic is one of my all-time favorite D&D modules, so I was really looking forward to it. Unfortunately, the skeletal system lacked player options under a GM unable to provde them narratively, and as a result the players, including myself, seemed bored. This could have worked, and worked well, but to be honest about it I considered bailing. There were a number of character fatalities followed by immediate replacements, usually with a nigh-identical character, but I’m happy to say I survived. We got far enough into the pyramid to get some needed supplies, and then departed. I’ll have more to say about why this game didn’t work for me in Part 3 of this report.

D&D Next, The Legacy of the Crystal Shard (Friday)

The most successful of my three D&D events, this game was well-run and enjoyable. We didn’t play using the final D&D5 rules (which are already at the printer,) so under the late playtest rules that we used there were some pretty obvious balance issues. Nevertheless it played well and smoothly.

What I took away from the new ruleset in actual play was the impression of a blend of about 50% 3.x and 50% other versions of D&D (including 4th,) with the overall complexity dialed down to about a quarter of what you’d see in 3/4E. It was a good mix, and I continue to look forward to the new version of the rules, but I remain uncomitted to it as a rules platform for my own use… but I’ll have more to say about that in the next post as well. We only played through a small fraction of the published adventure.

Artemis Spaceship Bridge Simulator (Friday)

I could write a whole post explaining what this is, but instead I will have you watch the video below. Essentially it’s a computer-assisted LARP in which you play the bridge crew of an Enterprise-like ship. Actually participating, it’s tremendous fun and I will happily sign up for a few slots of it next year. It’s not the kind of thing you’d want to do every week, but I wished I’d gotten to play it once or twice more. It take about 45 minutes to play through a single scenario.

D&D BECMI, X2 Castle Amber

The GM for this was extremely good. Unfortunately, by that time I was running on 40+ hours without sleep, and my play reflected that before I crashed in a corner of the hall after about an hour in. My wife retreived me once the event was over, but she assures me she had fun.

Pathfinder Society, Destiny of the Sands, Part 1

IMG_20140614_110913Of my three Pathfinder games, this one was the least enjoyable. Not becuase it was a bad event, or becuase it wasn’t run pretty well, but because it was a home group (GM included) with me as the tacked-on sixth player. This is always damned uncomfortable, but there were also too many mousy players at the table, and me providing the only active personality was really awkward, especially in this group, in my first Pathfinder game in ages and my first Pathfinder Society event ever. But it wasn’t so bad for all that, and the adventure was good.

Pathfinder Society, Destiny of the Sands, Part 2

IMG_20140613_150433A highly enjoyable game. The GM was relatively unseasoned but carried herself very well despite a few rough patches in the rules, including one instance when myself and another player fucked something up (failure to notice that we had already used our AoOs that round) and we had to back up half a round. But a fun, fun event with rock-solid players who remained highly engaged the whole time.

Pathfinder Society, Library of the Lion

I broke out my Wizard for this very combat-light event, which I enjoyed enormously. The one fight was against some animated books and the rest was skills roles and puzzles which were at just the right level of difficulty for such an event. The GM was not good with boxed text but was otherwise excellent and the people at the table were fully engaged, except for one player who sat at the table silently knitting socks the whole time. Don’t ask me.

Pathfinder Society Play

As I mentioned, this was my first whirl with Pathfinder Society stuff and my first time doing any kind of organized play in many years. It was great fun especially for the third event. This despite the fairly chaotic marshaling process, which was not aided by the on-site book misprints which had incorrect start times, incorrect event prices and variuous other cockups. Now that I have a better understanding of how this works I can plan better for the next time and tweak my characters to be more effective in this kind of play.

That’s the wrapup of games played. In the next installment I will have some additional thoughts about how and why the Pathfinder events generally beat out the D&D events.

Origins 2014 Wrapup Part 1

Origins 2014 has come to an end, and a great time was had by (mostly) all. Here is part one of my show wrapup thoughts.

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The Games

Origins is all about games, and I’ll have detailed thoughts about the things that I played in my next post. In general, however, gaming at Origins is thriving. The Pathfinder and Shadowrun rooms, driven by organized play, were booming. The Indie RPGs on Demand room was also hopping the whole time, and the cavernous D&D room was better-attended than it looked. As usual there were a large number of Call of Cthulhu events. Even oddball games like Traveller and Rolemaster were sellouts. Massive tournaments dominated the board gaming area, and deck-building card games like Ascension and Dominion were very prominent.

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I’ll have a separate post up about the events I myself participated in.

The Exhibit Hall

The dealers’ room this year was a paradise for boardgamers. So much so that some prominent publishers like Mayfair and Asmodee got their own sales areas — but in the Board Gaming hall.

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The dealers’ room was not so strong for RPG players and wargamers of either the hex-and-counter or miniatures variety. Many major players, including WotC, Paizo, Games Workshop and GMT did not exhibit, but the Steve Jackson James/Atlas/Chaosium booth had a big presence, and they were dealing both Paizo product and Numenera. Kenzer also exhibited, and there were both sellers of indie RPGs and a number of smaller publishers on hand. The big booths selling old and out of print RPGs and wargames were entirely gone. Columbia Games and Decision Games were there to represent old school wargaming.

As Origins evolves, the number of dealers selling cosplay and LARP stuff continues to increase.

Organization

As in previous years, show management was very disorganized. Lines were long and slow for those unfortunate enough to try to get in on Saturday morning, the events book suffered from many, many misprints and many events had to be moved at the last minute, with no notices posted. Thankfully, random people on hand were generally happy to point you in the right direction. Events were frequently listed in the book at the wrong times or with the wrong prices, so folks kept showing up early or with the wrong number of generic tokens in their pockets.

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Origins is changing — not necessarily for the worse, but it is changing in directions away from where GAMA’s expertise lies. Wherever that is. Every year, for example, there are more and more cosplayers, and GAMA has no idea how to deal with or appeal to them.

The Origins Awards, which should logically be the gaming hobby’s equivalent to the Oscars, were again bungled. Wil Wheaton’s Tabletop, which is both a great and entertaining show and is driving large numbers of people into boardgames, won a well-deserved award, but when folks started congratulating Wil on Twitter, it turned out that nobody had told him he was even nominated. This kind of incompetence would be laughable but something like it seems to happen almost every year, and for every step forward there seem to be two steps back.

What GAMA needs to do is hire a professional event management firm to run the show for them. They did so before, and in comparison the convention was very well-run in those years, but politics of the anti-WotC variety caused GAMA to end their arrangement with Andon.

Now, I’ve seen worse, at both Origins and Gen Con. It was better than some years, and no issue was so devastating as to completely torpedo the whole show. But it was very sloppy in a number of places, and the Origins Award thing is just a goddamn embarrassment.

The Food

There are many, many worthwhile places to eat around the convention center. My schedule was so compact, however, that I didn’t have the opportunity to go anywhere but the Hyatt’s food court, where the grub is merely serviceable but very cheap by con food standards, with a sole jaunt to North market on Friday, where I had some excellent curry followed by ice cream. Alas that I did not make it to Barley’s or the Flatiron, my two favorite places to eat in the area.

Overall

GAMA’s blundering aside, in general I had a great time. I did not get to spend as much time playing or attending as I would have liked, but that’s par for the course for folks with adult responsibilities.

Origins has historically been and remains a great show to attend to play actual games. Get gamers together and the magic happens, despite whatever mistakes the convention organizers made.

Lessons for Next Year

Every year I find some things that I would have done differently, and that list reflects changes in the hobby, changes in the show and changes in personal circumstances. But here’s what I’d like to do differently next year:

  • Budget more money for the convention. This year I bought very little aside from dice, but my food budget could have been bigger.
  • Play more Pathfinder. I’ll have more to say about this in the next post, but I found the Pathfinder Society stuff to be very enjoyable. But I still want to do other games as well, so…
  • Budget more time for the convention. This means taking two days off from work, which I have not done for the last few years. This would give me, minimally, a full day to play games on Thursday as well as the opportunity to get in on stuff on Wednesday as well. There were things I wanted to do but couldn’t because I had to go to work on Thursday night.
  • Maybe run a game or two. It occurred to me that I have never done so at Origins. There are all kinds of available avenues for this, but stuff for Indie Games on Demand would be a possibility, or I may try to do Rolemaster or Traveller or something else similarly underserved. It would be nice if my RPG was finished by then, but that’s very unlikely to happen by next year.
  • Have a better way to do online blogging from the show. Partly this is a function of time, but there were also equipment and battery issues, and I didn’t do as much reporting from the show as I would have liked.

My Origins Event Schedule

Origins 2014 has begun, and today I picked up my badge and signed up for as many events as I could fit into my schedule (below.) I will be reporting on each event as the con proceeds, in addition to tweeting under the #OriginsGameFair hashtag, plus as much else as I can get in.

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Thursday

  • 2 PM – 6 PM: Full Thrust (Miniatures)
  • 6 PM – 10 PM: 13th Age

Friday

  • 8 AM – 12 PM: D&D BECMI, B4 The Lost City
  • 1 PM – 5 PM: D&D Next, Legacy of the Crystal Shard
  • 7 PM-8 PM: Artemis Spaceship Brudge Simulator
  • 8 PM – Midnight: D&D BECMI, X2 Castle Amber

Saturday

  • 8 AM – 1 PM: Pathfinder, Destiny of the Sands, Part 1
  • 1 PM – 6 PM: Pathfinder, Destiny of the Sands, Part 2
  • 7 PM – Midnight: Pathfinder, Library of the Lion

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Sunday’s up in the air, as the 8-hour marathon Pathfinder game I’d planned to be in was sold out.

Origins 2014

The Origins Game Fair, one of the country’s largest hobby game conventions, takes place in Columbus, Ohio each summer. It starts this Wednesday. It’s a great show and I have fun every year. I’ve only missed two shows since 1995, one due to scheduling issues and the other due to a health problem which is thankfully cleared up now.

As in previous years I will be posting on social media about the show while it’s happening and I’ll have blog posts regarding it as time permits – hopefully each day, but when it’s over if nothing else. I plan to take as many photos as my batteries allow. Unlike previous years my intention this year is to game my ass off. We’ll see what I can get into on Wednesday, but I have a full slate of games planned, with alternates in case any of my first choices are filled. I will be hitting D&D and Pathfinder hard, filling in the gaps with goodies from Indie Games on Demand. I may also try that Artemis thing if I get the opportunity. I even have a miniatures game on my alternates list.

D&D5 For Free

And then there arose an interesting development regarding the D&D5E Starter Set and its suitability as a stand-alone game system for long-term play. There is, as always, good news and bad news.

It’s always my habit to drop the bad news first, so here goes. At this point the Starter Set appears to be what it says on the tin: levels 1-5 and a canned adventure or two (Mearls says “campaign.”) Very similar to the kind of introductory sets we’ve seen since the cancellation of the BECMI line. It doesn’t sound like the kind of thing that can keep people playing for all that long, although the components might well be useful later on.

The good news, though, is a biggie, spilled by Mike Mearls early this morning. Alongside the 5E rollout we’re going to see a product called Basic Dungeons & Dragons, which will be distributed as a free PDF. It will contain the four core classes of Cleric, Fighter, Rogue and Wizard, and will include the Halfling, Elf, Dwarf and Human races. And levels 1-20. Mike compared it to the Rules Cyclopedia, with the three D&D5 core books being the equivalent of AD&D.

As new “storylines” (which I read as “modules”) are released, there will be PDFs of any extra material not already in basic D&D but needed to run the adventure, also for free. So the guts of D&D will be available entirely for free in a presumably accessible and newbie-ready format, along with at least some de facto supplimentary material as time goes on.

Another implication is also that 5E adventures in general will be more or less fully BD&D compatible, eliminating any need for a separate line of support products (although it’s kind of getting that anyway.)

This is the kind of introductory version of the game that I was talking about the other day. We’ll see how lean it is when it releases, but it sounds very promising, and as a number of the retro-clones show, you can fit a lot of game into a relatively low page count. As Mearls says, it could provide “a lifetime of gaming.”

The fact that it’s free is important but the whole thing sings to me of a bravura marketing move. It should drive sales of both the supplementary products and the core books. If compatibility with pre-4E editions is high enough (and I think it will be, by and large) it will drive sales of legacy PDF material through D&DClassics.com. The price of zero dollars combined with D&D’s brand recognition will lower the entry barrier to the whole hobby. And it will be an attractive option for those of us who want to play D&D and prefer that it be the current, supported version, but who would rather use a rule set simpler than the whole 5E enchilada, or say 3.5 or Pathfinder. If it’s good enough and clean enough it might even win over some of the asthmatic old geezers of the OSR.

D&D is sort of free already, of course. The 3.x SRD is still out there, not to mention the Pathfinder version. That particular Efreet is out of its bottle and can’t be put back in. But 3.x is a pretty damned complex game, and the SRD is not at all a rookie-friendly delivery system for it.

Now, there are still questions. Will Basic D&D release at the same time as the Starter Set, as Mike’s post seems to me to imply? Will there be a print edition of any kind? How will the licensing conditions for BD&D differ from those of balls-out 5E, if at all? Will there even be licensing, or will WotC contract out design work like they’re doing with the initial range of adventures? Of such questions are future blog posts made.

An Expanded Starter Set?

In a follow-up to yesterday’s post, check out this What If from Tenkar’s Tavern. While this is obviously not confirmed, Erik’s reasoning is believable. Extending the Starter Set rules to 15th level makes sense in this context, and would go a long way toward making it a fully playable, simplified iteration of D&D in its own right, even without any other supporting materials.

The D&D5 Starter Set: Complete or Crippleware?

The venerable Tobold wrote a response to last week’s article on the D&D Next reveal, in which he disagreed with me. At least he says he did; after several passes through his most excellent article I’m not sure I see where.

Tobold says that D&D4 is a great game. I agree. He says that it might have been better titled something like “D&D Tactics.” With that I emphatically agree. Indeed, I think D&D4’s biggest failure was one of branding. Had it been produced as its own distinct line with some iteration closer to the D&D mainstream still in production, many of the ill feelings surrounding it might have been avoided. Tobold says we need a true introductory product, and that neither D&D4 or D&D3.x are very good for that; with that I agree as well. Tobold actually seems to disagree more with Wizards of the Coast rather than my piece. However, had I elaborated on a few points perhaps we’d have found more fertile ground for battle.

Moldvay BasicIt seems to me that Tobold’s position rests on the presumption that the upcoming D&D Starter Set will not be a good introductory product for new players, and he gives several reasons for thinking so. He may be correct; as he rightly points out, WotC has never successfully managed this. The danger in releasing such a product with the aim of drawing new players into the hobby is that such a product will be, essentially, crippleware, good for an evening or two of introductory play but then essentially mandating a step up to the “advanced” rules. Oddly, the introductory set that Tobold points to as a superior example was, to my recollection, exactly that — a hobbled game designed explicitly to drive players to AD&D, and containing only enough material for a few evenings of play at best. But perhaps he’s only talking about the price point and quality of components, whcih did land in a sweet spot.

Mentzer BasicWe have many questions about D&D5, chiefly about its method of delivery rather than the rules themselves, most of which have been in circulation for quite a while. The one to which Tobold spoke the other day and to which I am writing today is one of the bigger ones yet unanswered, whether the new D&D Starter Set will be a complete game in its own right. Tobold presumes no; I think it’s too soon to say, but I see his reasons for concern. Since my article was published I’ve learned that the D&D5 Starter Set will not contain character creation rules, a worrying sign. Those rules will, however, be made available online, for free. Personally, I would say that the level 5 cap isn’t as important as it might appear. The old D&D Basic Set (pictured in both its incarnations) only gave you three levels, and from personal experience you could get quite a lot of play out of those three levels before you felt obliged to step up to the accompanying Expert Set, and with that accessory you could basically play forever. But the assumptions underlying the speed of character progression were very different back then, and if you were listening to Gary Gygax’s advice on the subject you could spend months playing before your characters were in danger of reaching level 4. Not that everyone adhered to that, even Gary from what I hear.

Ideally, the D&D Starter Set would contain a complete RPG (even if character creation is shunted into some online document,) simpler than the full D&D5 rules, that would be suited to introducing new players to both the game and the hobby. Especially youngsters. And it would be supported by at least a few of its own adventures, and an add-on kit that would enable play through, say, level 10 or 15, while keeping the overall complexity level in keeping with what’s in the Starter Set. You could play forever with that. But I have no indication thus far that such a line of support products is planned, and indeed I strongly suspect that it isn’t. Then again, a great deal depends on WotC’s licensing plans for 5E. It may be that they’ll be open enough to allow some intrepid third party publisher to produce exactly that.

Tobold and I appear to have no substantial disagreements insofar as the points made in our respective posts. We do disagree as to the potential merits of D&D5 in general, but that’s a discussion I am unwilling to have until the actual products are released and in my hands. There is also, however, a matter of design and/or marketing philosophy that I may feel obliged to expound upon later in the week.